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 Depth of Trance
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mark-gil

United Kingdom
445 Posts

Posted - 04/25/2005 :  11:18:29 PM  Show Profile  Visit mark-gil's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Until recently, the old belief prevailed that the therapeutic response of the client was linked to the depth of trance achieved during therapy. This belief is based upon another false idea that the subject goes into trance and is deepened to a supposed depth that guarantees results. Therapeutic response comes from the client's readiness for change, the relationship with the hypnotherapist, the client's willingness to give up secondary benefits and the Grace of God. "Depth of trance" is more correctly named "quality of response". So-called "depth" is controlled by the prevailing brain wave patterns and is subject to instant change created by input from the therapist and the clients emotionalized response. Improve the result by giving up the belief that "the deeper the trance the faster the result"

Gil Boyne
www.gil-boyne.com
[Gil Passed Away May 5, 2010]

ForumMaster

USA
669 Posts

Posted - 04/26/2005 :  12:30:31 PM  Show Profile  Visit ForumMaster's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Posted by Andrew - 04/24/2005 : 06:08:32 AM
Moved by ForumMaster (the original first post for this topic)

Hello All

I need some advice on the depth of hypnosis.With hypnosis it is possible to vary the depth of the trance, if a client is to deep in hypnosis they become lethargic and unable to speak. One can easily bring them up a bit, but somehow I battle with this myself. I practice hypnosis regularly but can never go into a light trance. It feels as if someone injects me with an anesthetic and I return to full awareness with my hands feeling numb. It is true, now that I am used to hypnosis that it takes me much longer to get deeper into a trance.

How can I practice a lighter trance and does it even matter at all ?
Thanks
A.
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anthony

Canada
305 Posts

Posted - 04/26/2005 :  3:13:07 PM  Show Profile  Click to see anthony's MSN Messenger address  Reply with Quote
You seem to be relating trance state to hypnosis, and this is not so. Depth of trance is controlled often by the need for relaxation, and your question suggests you need more rest of some sort. It may be lack of sleep time, lack of proper rest due to sleep apnia, or whatever, but for some reason you mind is taking advantage of the relaxation involved in trance to catch up with needed rest. Read the previous post by Mark Gil Boyne in relationship to this question, and don't fall into the trap of thinking trance and hypnosis are the same thing, they are not. Anyone can creat a state of trance in themselves or another, but only an experienced hypnotist can best use that state....
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mark-gil

United Kingdom
445 Posts

Posted - 05/03/2005 :  10:57:10 AM  Show Profile  Visit mark-gil's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Hello Andrew, You mentioned "lethargic Trance" and
this state does exist. It is characterized by a powerful disinclination to move or speak or think or act. It is a form of trance that has been called the "coma State" (Dave Elman). In fifty years of practice, I have only seen it a dozen times or so.
The subject is very reluctant to speak or follow physical suggestions. Take their hand gently, put your mouth close to the ear and speak softly. You may have to get them started by means of finger signaling (ideomotor movememts). For your self-hypnosis learn to work with a good hypnosis tape or CD which will terminate your trance on signal.
Good Luck.

Gil Boyne
www.gil-boyne.com
[Gil Passed Away May 5, 2010]
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John D

United Kingdom
34 Posts

Posted - 05/25/2005 :  12:27:21 PM  Show Profile  Visit John D's Homepage  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by anthony

You seem to be relating trance state to hypnosis, and this is not so. Depth of trance is controlled often by the need for relaxation, and your question suggests you need more rest of some sort. It may be lack of sleep time, lack of proper rest due to sleep apnia, or whatever, but for some reason you mind is taking advantage of the relaxation involved in trance to catch up with needed rest. Read the previous post by Mark Gil Boyne in relationship to this question, and don't fall into the trap of thinking trance and hypnosis are the same thing, they are not. Anyone can creat a state of trance in themselves or another, but only an experienced hypnotist can best use that state....


I would be very interested to know what exactly is a "trance" and what is "hypnosis" and how one is differentiated or distinguished from the other? I mean how do you know when you or your client is in a "trance" and when he or she is in "hypnosis"?

John S. Dovelos, Ph.D.
Athenaeum University International
www.unicollege-edu.net
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anthony

Canada
305 Posts

Posted - 05/25/2005 :  1:30:35 PM  Show Profile  Click to see anthony's MSN Messenger address  Reply with Quote
John, I have just finished giving an explanation of this on another board, but here goes. Most people think of trance as a state of complete relaxation, and that being so, it is NOT hypnosis as I am sure you will agree. If however you allow that a narrowed focus under controlled circumstances is also trance, you will understand why some of us reffer to TRANCE and then reject it as being hypnosis. My own definition of hypnosis is the production of a narrowed focus of mind, for the purpose of changing that mind. This xplanation allows for various forms of hypnosis including Stage while separating hypnosis from self imagining, day dreaming, and what is often called "driving hypnosis" which is not true hypnosis but relaxation of the concious mind without intent to perform change.
Now of course this is MY explanation and understanding, and I have no problem with others disagreeing if they so choose and can offer an equally good definition. I doubt however that any other explanation will change my mind, since I have given much thought to how to explain hypnosis in a simple and understandable manner, and this is what comes up.....
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John D

United Kingdom
34 Posts

Posted - 05/26/2005 :  05:28:40 AM  Show Profile  Visit John D's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Anthony, I couldn't find the board you're referring to, you could direct me to it if you don't mind. In the meantime, I will post my musings (not statements) about hypnosis here.
I think it is important when we talk about hypnosis to bear in mind that there are currently hundreds of theories and definitions of hypnosis, without a single one of them having been accepted by a significant majority of researchers and clinicians in the field. Also, the term "hypnosis" itself is a misnomer. It derives from the Greek word "hypnos" which means "sleep". James Braid, who coined up the term, thought early in his career that hypnosis was artificially induced sleep that was produced by fatigue. He soon realized that that was wrong and tried to change the term to "monoideism", another compound Greek word meaning "single thought" or "single idea". However, Braid's efforts were in vain, as the wrong term "hypnosis" had already caught on.

The point is that we should be careful not to be trapped by the term "hypnosis" which people in the field cannot even agree upon what exactly it is meant to describe.

I would like to comment on your definition of hypnosis as being, "the production of a narrowed focus of mind, for the purpose of changing that mind." It appears to me that the narrowing of focus is in fact a process and not an end result. Further, this narrowing of focus refers to the conscious mind. It is a natural characteristic of the conscious mind to relinquish control when its focus is narrowed on a specific idea, thought, imaginary point, physical object, a sound, an image, etc. This is a natural process that is not exclusive to hypnosis and which inevitably leads the conscious mind to "relax" or let go of its functions of reality monitoring and control of responses. The narrower the focus, the quicker and more effective this process is.

As a result of the conscious mind relinquishing control, other elements of the mind (what we call the "subconscious") become dominant and direct communication with these elements becomes possible. Therapeutic change is possible only at this level, or, rather, when this general type of mental function is present. The specific "depth" or "level" does not make much difference at all and it may vary considerably from client to client and from session to session with the same client. As long as the conscious mind has effectively relinquished monitoring and control and other, not usually dominant, aspects of the mind have taken over, we have reached the desirable state where therapeutic change can occur.

Isn't it more plausible, then, to describe as hypnosis this state instead of the process that leads to this state? Many people call this particular state or function of the mind a "trance".

Narrowing of focus is also used in most types of meditation and some types of rituals, both religious and non-religious. The result is exactly the same, a trance. I personally believe though, and I think many will agree, that the type of trance we call hypnosis which is produced through hypnotic talk, regardless of the type of such talk used, produces a trance that is qualitatively different to that produced by different methods. We could say that hypnotic talk pre-disposes the subconscious mind in, perhaps, a slightly, but importantly, different way.

This specific quality distinguishes an hypnotic trance from other types of trance. But, otherwise, a trance is a trance.

John S. Dovelos, Ph.D.
Athenaeum University International
www.unicollege-edu.net

Edited by - John D on 05/26/2005 05:39:31 AM
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Suggest-o-Man

Australia
15 Posts

Posted - 08/03/2005 :  02:35:14 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
John D.
This topic is a "continuation" of an earlier discussion that was abruptly terminated by the moderator.
The "discussion" that you seek is at :
http://hypnosisonline.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=325

[It is the "fast inductions or slower ones?" topic within the "Scripts & Inductions" forum)

Edited by - Suggest-o-Man on 08/03/2005 02:41:18 AM
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ForumMaster

USA
669 Posts

Posted - 10/05/2005 :  4:54:08 PM  Show Profile  Visit ForumMaster's Homepage  Reply with Quote
quote:
This topic is a "continuation" of an earlier discussion that was abruptly terminated by the moderator.


Suggest-o-Man,

You are incorrect - no discussion was ever terminated by any Moderator ever in the history of this forum.

What happened was someone reopened the conversation under a new heading, in a different section, after the fact. Since the discussion had taken a turn from the original topic "fast inductions or slower ones" into "Depth of Trance" a link was placed at the end of the older discussion, to point to this new one, so people would not continue to post under an incorrect and misleading title. This also prevents us from having two ongoing discussions on the same topic in two separate areas of the boards.

ForumMaster

Bigger is better! 150+ Scripts is now...
"250+ Scripts for Hypnosis Therapy."
(Instant download, CD-ROM, and textbook 3-ring binder)
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anthony

Canada
305 Posts

Posted - 10/06/2005 :  10:08:15 AM  Show Profile  Click to see anthony's MSN Messenger address  Reply with Quote
John, the board I was reffering to is at hypnosis.com if you wish to visit it. As to the defintion of hypnosis and trance, I have no problem with differing explanations, it's all rather merky already, since the mind is so complicated that it defies explanation, and we are dealing with a function of it when discussing hypnosis. My own intent, is to ensure that hypnosis reffers only to such activities as allow us to program the mind, either our own or others, in a controlled manner. Anything else is not hypnosis... Trance is not hypnosis, relaxation is not hypnosis, and day dreaming is not hypnosis. Unfortunately, many of those who visit here get these mistaken ideas, and believe themselves capable of self hypnosis, and then come here asking why it didn't work. A complicated explanation is not what is needed, but it seems they are hard to convince anyway.
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rob1123

United Kingdom
4 Posts

Posted - 06/06/2013 :  5:34:00 PM  Show Profile  Visit rob1123's Homepage  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by John D

quote:
Originally posted by anthony

You seem to be relating trance state to hypnosis, and this is not so. Depth of trance is controlled often by the need for relaxation, and your question suggests you need more rest of some sort. It may be lack of sleep time, lack of proper rest due to sleep apnia, or whatever, but for some reason you mind is taking advantage of the relaxation involved in trance to catch up with needed rest. Read the previous post by Mark Gil Boyne in relationship to this question, and don't fall into the trap of thinking trance and hypnosis are the same thing, they are not. Anyone can creat a state of trance in themselves or another, but only an experienced hypnotist can best use that state....


I would be very interested to know what exactly is a "trance" and what is "hypnosis" and how one is differentiated or distinguished from the other? I mean how do you know when you or your client is in a "trance" and when he or she is in "hypnosis"?



I've found that people tend to breath much slower and deeper while in a trance, however while under hypnosis breathing appears quite normal, I'm not sure though, does anyone else have a similar experience when putting people under?
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tbradley

USA
19 Posts

Posted - 10/09/2014 :  2:56:33 PM  Show Profile  Visit tbradley's Homepage  Reply with Quote
It seems to me there is a difference in a trance and hypnosis. A trance is loosing control of ones mind completely zoned out with little conscious control. When I was in a trance, time stopped and sped ahead at the same time. Under hypnosis, there is a certain awareness and functional benefit. Trance is more negative to me.

T.Holcomb
Cincinnati, OH
Wise and Curious
http://www.HealthyIdeasToday.com
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El Magnifico

United Kingdom
2 Posts

Posted - 10/27/2014 :  9:43:19 PM  Show Profile  Visit El Magnifico's Homepage  Reply with Quote
The deeper one gets into trance the greater the result.It's up to the hypnotist on how he guides the subject into being more responsive and receptive at the same time.

Hypnosis to remotely influence.
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