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ForumMaster
USA
670 Posts |
 Posted - 05/29/2003 : 04:57:05 AM
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From: shanec (Original Message) Sent: 4/25/2002 1:37 AM
I'm still somewhat doubtful of how well hypnosis works for things such as this. I would think if breast enhancement was as easy as being hypnotized, hypnosis would be much more popular. This is also easily tested, measurement could be taken to validate the claims. I noticed many sites offer hypnosis tapes for breast enhancements and penis enhancements, do they really work?
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ForumMaster
USA
670 Posts |
Posted - 05/29/2003 : 04:57:26 AM
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From: knight Sent: 4/25/2002 12:33 PM
Why push the issue? Try it or not as you wish. For my part, running the "Institute of Body Sculpting" in Calgary Aberta, I get lots of requests for this along with loss of inches from other areas of the body. Use of tapes however is another matter, I can only recommend that which I know, but I can assure you that tapes at best, can only work for sixty percent of those who use them, and likely much less than that. I have no intention of beating a dead horse in this regard, there are those who will swear by tapes, but they are among the sixty percent, or are those who profit from the sale of these items. Terrye
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ForumMaster
USA
670 Posts |
Posted - 05/29/2003 : 04:57:51 AM
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From: shanec Sent: 4/25/2002 4:16 PM
I "push" the issue because it seems like if these breast/penis augmentation tapes had any validity there would be research tests that proved something like this were possible. If the scientific community really felt it would work you would see more of these studies. For example, all they would have to do is get, lets say, 100 over 21 year old woman volunteers (which definitely wouldn't be difficult) have them listen to the tape and measure to see if their breasts had grown any larger, it's very simple!!!!! Even if it worked for 10% I bet you would hear more about its success! If something sounds too good to be true it probably is. If you could really change penis size or breast size by listening to a tape you would be hearing about it all over the news, on radio stations, during commercials. People spend millions of dollars a year on cosmetic surgery that could have potentially severe side effects. If something like this worked I'm almost positive it would be the most often used product available. Plastic Surgeons wouldn't be cutting up people before using these tapes if there were such a viable and easy solution. Even if it only worked for 25% of the population every woman who wanted a breast augmentation would be sure to try a tape for $50 first before spending $4,000 and being put under the knife for a boob job.
I guess I "push" this issue because I don't like to get ripped off and I don't like it when other people to get ripped off either. I think if it doesn't work and someone sells it then they are charlatins coning people out of their money and really don't care about their customers. I don't know about you but I think that is unethical, if someone knows that one of their products doesn't work and the customer will be unhappy with it they should stop selling it, period. If they don't work I think people with experience in hypnosis should get the word out so people will not buy these tapes and get ripped off. Hypnosis gets a bad rap because people see most sites selling tapes like breast/penis augmentation tapes and they think if they're willing to sell me tapes like these then how can I trust any other products they sell?! Many people think most hypnotists are dishonest and have no credibility.
I was pondering buying some "made for you" hypnosis tapes online but have reconsidered since then when I saw the site was selling breast augmentation tapes and guaranteeing they will work. You already gave me a lower percentage level of sucess (which I'm thinking is really closer to 0%, then this site has.
What I was really looking for was any valid studies that were done, by a REPUTABLE publication possibly something like the New England Journal of Medicine or something along those lines but I guess I will not find it because it simply is too good to be true. As you put it some people swear by it, but I don't know why they have to do that when these tapes can easily be tested....testimonials are not needed, unbiased studies that actually give you hard facts are.
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ForumMaster
USA
670 Posts |
Posted - 05/29/2003 : 04:59:18 AM
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From: HypnoDoc Sent: 4/25/2002 5:32 PM
"Plastic Surgeons wouldn't be cutting up people before using these tapes if there were such a viable and easy solution."
I doubt that any new developments in any area what-so-ever would ever stop surgeons from recommending their services. So much money is made on these types of services that they have their own lobbyists to help keep the status quo.
AMA recommend anything outside surgery and pills? I doubt it.
Lastly, after a hypnosis session (or tape) a woman could actually stand more erect, with bust out, as a result of her perceived enhancement and new conditioning. Therein provide a real measurable size increase with only a change in stance. Likewise a person who is conditioned to hold their stomach in could physically be measured to have a waist reduction.
The positive change in attitude toward these specific areas is well worth the money for the tapes (if they are done well) but nothing can measure up to the results of a one-on-one Hypnotherapy session.
For you personally the tapes would be a rip off because you are already convinced that they do not work. For those who are not so convinced it may be an inexpensive way to build confidence and self esteem in the areas where they lack it. For this the price paid for the tape is very inexpensive.
Now before you go off on another page long diatribe, let me state that I am not defending any one person's work or tapes and I am not suggesting that all the tapes that are offered from all over the world and online are legitimate. As with any other industry there are the real and the not-so-real.
If you feel so strongly about these "research tests" why not go ahead and do them. When you are all finished, give the New England Journal of Medicine a call and let us all know what they say about publishing your findings.
---------------------------------------
“Words are the most powerful drug used by mankind” Rudyard Kipling.
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ForumMaster
USA
670 Posts |
Posted - 05/29/2003 : 04:59:45 AM
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From: shanec Sent: 4/25/2002 8:16 PM
Changing a woman's stance to make their breasts look bigger is not what I call a increase in breast size. Many claims for breast enhancement using hypnoisis tapes are an increase in one to two cup sizes. The women who would probably be most interested in this are women would have very small breasts such as small a's. Standing up straight and sticking their chests out won't change a womans true physical breast size. If tests were done they would be done in a controlled environment with all things being equal, same position for all women, probably laying down with back flat. It would not be that difficult to measure substansial changes.
As for me doing the tests I don't have the background to do them. I have a masters in Business Management which unfortunately wouldn't give me the right background to do these kinds of studies. I would not be a reputable source plus I'd probably look like a pervert if I asked women if I could measure their breasts. It would also cost some money and expertise to do these tests. Although data probably has been collected on the effectiveness of breast enhancement tapes, there hasn't been enough cases of proven breast enlargment to do more detailed tests. I've emailed some "experts" and that's what they have told me They felt there has probably been no substansial evidence that these tapes work so that's why more tests haven't been done or papers published on breast enlargement through hypnosis. I was also told that there are enough scientists out there who are looking for medical breakthroughs who would jump at the opportunity to prove something as substantial as this if they felt that breast enlargment could be done through hypnosis.
As for me believing or not believing in the types of tapes, I wouldn't mind using one for penis enlargement if it showed to work. I'm happy with my size but wouldn't mind being a little bit bigger for $50. I don't feel like spend $5 to $10 on shipping though. I'm just really skepticle that there hasn't been evidence that proves penis/breast size can be changed through hypnosis, if it did work I think there would be. If I were a hypnotist I would be even more interested in studies done on the subject.
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ForumMaster
USA
670 Posts |
Posted - 05/29/2003 : 05:00:07 AM
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From: knight Sent: 4/25/2002 10:06 PM
I ask, "why push the issue" because you don't know me, or my reputation, so if in doubt now, why not in doubt after reading what I write?
I have never enlarged a penis with hypnosis, and have no knowledge of how well it might or might no work. However, I have enlarge several breasts with hypnosis, and I assure you it worked very well. The difference between the two is great. Breasts are composed of fat, the penis is not. As for why women risk their health with breast implants when hypnosis would do the job in a safe and natural manner, you will have to ask those women, not me. I said that the best you can expect from a tape, however well done, is 60%. This is not intended to offer any guarrantee, but is the best possible since that is the percentage of persons who's predominent sense is sight. Others can't use tapes made for the former, and I know of non made for that other fourty percent. All tapes I have heard, use visual imagery.
My advice, for what it's worth, contact a Hypnotist who is a member of a recognised group, and book a session or two. No reputable practitioner will sell tapes produced commercially, because he or she knows they are of little value. Terrye
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ForumMaster
USA
670 Posts |
Posted - 05/29/2003 : 05:00:32 AM
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From: knight Sent: 4/25/2002 10:24 PM
Your comments about changing a woman's stance is valid to some extent, a breast which protrudes straight out, instead of hanging down, will indeed look as if it is larger. Personally, I always shorten the muscle which is at the top of the breast in order to make this happen, and the breast to appear more youthfull, were this is indicated. However, that is NOT the extent of my intervention. The breasts of most women who come to me for help, are very large already, and hanging down to their middles from stress on the muscles. Once they have their excess fat removed from other parts of the body, they want assistance to make the breast look good, not larger, but I still get some who are too slim, and need help the other way. Cost by the way can vary greatly, but usually the client will need six to eight visits, at an aproximate cost of $70.00 per visit, so almost six hundred dollars. Don't know how that compares with the cost of an operation, but I do know it's much safer. Terrye
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ForumMaster
USA
670 Posts |
Posted - 05/29/2003 : 05:01:19 AM
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From: MeiguoLangren Sent: 4/25/2002 11:03 PM
> ShaneC wrote:
> I "push" the issue because it seems like if these
> breast/penis augmentation tapes had any validity there
> would be research tests that proved something like
> this were possible.
There are. At least there are for breast enhancement. I have not seen any for penis work. The most commonly cited ones are appended below. Go to a library and do a search in the health, psych, and sociofiles databases and you will find more. Hypnosis can affect changes in physical systems - blood pressure, warts, breasts . . . I don't know any numbers on penis work so I don't included it until I've seen it . . . penis work is not the same as breast work. Many women experience changes in their breast size within their lifetime, it's part of the natural process. The growth or shrinking of breasts can be affected by hormones and by mood (which in term affects the system). This really does work. Your assumptions that it can't work seem logical until you look at the underlying systems involved. While I would agree that with many physical systems hypnosis cannot affect a real measurable affect, I believe this is one of the wonderful exceptions.
> What I was really looking for was any valid studies that
> were done, by a REPUTABLE publication possibly something
> like the New England Journal of Medicine or something
> along those lines
I am doubtful you will find many breast enhancement surgery studies in that particular journal. Studies are published in the appropriate venue. The med journal you mentioned screens based upon license and occupation. You have to be an MD to get published there. Most MDs are not hypnotists. So MDs do not do studies related to breast hypnosis. There are some. Hypnotists tend to publish in the hypnosis journals. The breast enhancement trade is a tertiary one at best. Most folks who publish do so in specialty peer reviewed journals rather than in the general medical ones.
I know breast enhancement with hypnosis works as do the women I have worked with who have seen results. However, I agree in that anecdotal evidence is not compelling . . . look at the appropriate studies.
I wish you the best.
Brian David Phillips, Ph.D.
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HypnoTranceWrightExchange
http://phillips.personal.nccu.edu.tw/hypnosis/index.html
http://phillips.personal.nccu.edu.tw/guidedimagery/index.html
Scientific Research on Hypnotic Breast Enlargement
1. Peter H.C. Mutke, M.D. (UCLA) performed the first study. He presented his results as a research paper to the Department of Neuropsychiatry, University of California, Los Angeles, February 28, 1971. As of 1994, Dr Mutke was still with UCLA and has been active in the American Council of Hypnotist Examiners.
2. Williams, J.E., Stimulation of breast growth by hypnosis. "Journal of Sex Research," 1974, 10:316-326. His thirteen volunteers averaged 2.11 inch increase in the circumference of their breasts (2 cup sizes).
3. Staib, A.R., and Logan, D.R., Hypnotic Stimulation of Breast Growth. "The American Journal of Clinical Hypnosis," 1977, 4:201-208. They repeated Dr. Williams' results with similar results. They also found women's waist size decreased by 1.4 inches. Their follow up study showed that 81 % of the breast enlargement was retained several months after the women stopped their visual imagery.
4. Willard, R. D., Breast enlargement through visual imagery and hypnosis. "The American Journal of Clinical Hypnosis," 1977, 4:195-200. Dr Willard used a different technique than Dr. Williams (who used age regression and age progression) and achieved an average 1.44 inch increase in breast size for his 22 volunteers. Every woman had an increase in their breast circumference.
5. Wilson, Donald L. MD, "Natural Bust Enlargement With Total Mind Power" How to use the other 90% of your brain to increase the size of your breasts. 1979 Book. Has the scripts and a great bibliography. Dr Wilson ran a clinic in California with great success. This book (a small hardback) is available thru Hypnosis Institute of Texas for US$12.95 plus $4.95 shipping and handling.
6. Beran, Roy (a neurologist at Adelaide Children's Hospital, England) presented the results of his study to the February 1979 National Convention of Hypnotherapists in Adelaide. Dr. Beran showed that the breast volume (he measured the breast's cubic displacement of water) more than doubled during the three month hypnosis program. Excerpt of the RESULTS section of the Willard study:
At the end of 12 weeks, 28% had reached the goal they had set at the beginning of the program and desired no further enlargement. There were 85% who could tell a significant enlargement in their breasts had been accomplished, and 46% found it necessary to buy a larger brassiere. Forty-two percent had a loss in weight of greater than 4 pounds and still had enlargement of their breasts. The average increase in circumference was 1.37 inches; the average increase in the vertical measurement was 0.67 inches and the average increase in horizontal measurement was 1.01 inches.... [note: the study was continued past 12 weeks to let those who hadn't reach their goals to do so.}
In this study, 63% of the subjects had had children and complained of pendulous breasts. These subjects expressed a desire to reclaim the fullness and contour of the breasts which they had before the pregnancies. All of these subjects reported they were very pleased with the increase in fullness and firmness of their breasts at the end of the study.... The only two subjects who subjectively felt there had been no significant increase, did have a measurable increase in size. Both subjects had difficulty obtaining the visualizations. All of the subjects reported an increase in firmness of their breasts. All of the subjects who began the study with one breast smaller than the other found them to be equal in size at the end of the twelve weeks.
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ForumMaster
USA
670 Posts |
Posted - 05/29/2003 : 05:01:36 AM
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From: hypnocnslt Sent: 4/26/2002 1:46 PM
Hi. I have been a medical professional for 28 years and a hypnotherapist for 16 years. There are several published medical studies that document that hypnosis can enlarge a woman's breasts <See the Indicus Medicus in a medical library>. I have also done this several times myself with patients in my office. Using tapes is another matter. I agree that only a percentage of the population will benefit from tapes and much of this is dependent on how great the desire of the patient/client is. Most tapes are rather general and cannot be specific for each individual, unless custom made. Tapes are good for reinforcement, once you have been through an office visit or two - a tape can reinforce the specific suggestions or plan of action that was developed.
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ForumMaster
USA
670 Posts |
Posted - 05/29/2003 : 05:01:57 AM
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From: knight Sent: 4/26/2002 2:02 PM
Someone sure did their homework (G) thank you for the information, though I confess I rarely hang on to such. If my clients choose not to trust me to be ethical, and to guarantee my work, they should go elsewere. Trust is important to both sides, and when I ask a client to do certain excercises for example, I expect and trust that they will comply. Regarding your posting, and for those who are not conversant with Hypnosis, may I explain the following. For the sixty percent of us who's primary sense is visual, the use of imigary is quick and easy, and gets results. For the fourty percent who's primary sense is other than visual, it is usually tactile, and this can create problems when a male practitioner is working with a female client. It would seem from my reading of those test results, that the practitioner, or practitoners avoided the problems of the tactile, by using imagery only, but in doing so, results were reduced to less that I would expect. Terrye
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ForumMaster
USA
670 Posts |
Posted - 05/29/2003 : 05:02:17 AM
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From: shanec Sent: 4/27/2002 9:35 PM
Thanks for all your help MeiguoLangren and hypnocnslt, I really appreciate it. That is what I was looking for. Knight, I don't think you should expect everyone that is looking for help to just trust you. I know there are a lot of scam artists out there, and there are going to be a lot of people who are going to be cautious about every new "miracle" that is out there. Do you know how many pills are out there that promise breast/penis enhancement? Do you know how many products out there that promise to help you to lose all your fat? Make you smarter? Make you money? Those Abtronic commercials have already proven not to work but it's a best seller. Most of the products online and in commercials do not work and the people who buy them do not do their homework. I'm really into fitness as a hobby and I know for fact more then 80% of the stuff sold at those Hi-Health stores do not work! Yet they still sell the stuff. As for hypnois, there are many hypnotists that claim results that are not possible. I even saw a hypnotist online say that he could make people taller! Even if he had not promised that do you think he would be a good hypnotist to have for other more serious problems a person might have? Probably not. I think it would be unwise for most people to just blindly trust others they don't know without doing a little research first.
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ForumMaster
USA
670 Posts |
Posted - 05/29/2003 : 05:02:50 AM
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From: trancer Sent: 4/30/2002 6:44 AM
hi,I'd like to say that i've just, in the past few month's had an outstanding result [if you'll pardon the pun] i took a 44 year old slim lady from 34 inches up two cup sizes and up to 38 inches, now that wasn't using tapes that was using wendi's scripts and i can assure you that the result is one happy lady, try it out.
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ForumMaster
USA
670 Posts |
Posted - 05/29/2003 : 05:03:15 AM
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From: terrye Sent: 4/30/2002 12:56 PM
Either you misunderstood my post, or have intentionally proved my point, not sure which one. First of all, I asked why you should change your mind, because of anything I said, simply because you didn't know me or my reputation. On the other hand, if someone comes to me for assistance, they have come by recommendation, since I don't advertise except by word of mouth. This being so, they choose to accept my help, or reject it based on a face to face interview. At this point, they make up their mind either that they trust me, or they don't. If they don't, please understand, I have no hard feelings, it is a choice everyone must make when faced with a situation they have not encountered before, and have nothing to base a decission on. Therefor, when deciding on the use of a tape or not, we have nothing at all to base our decission on, and no redress if we make the purchase and it doesn't give us the results we want. I promise no miracles, but do know from personal experience what works, and what is unlikely to work. Not that I am always right, no-one has unlimit knowledge of anything, but my years of experience are an excellent base for opinion. Terrye
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n/a
162 Posts |
Posted - 06/29/2003 : 10:17:22 AM
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Hi
Its all in the mind
Mike |
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Mr C
8 Posts |
Posted - 03/31/2004 : 12:51:30 PM
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Guys...lets all just admit to one thing here...
If you have done any studying in psychology, u'll be aware that our subconscious minds control all our functions from breathing to releasing growth hormone to chemical balance etc...
Now it was our subconscious that decided: when to stop us from growing taller, size of body parts, perceptions and attitudes to life etc, 80% of problems are psychosamatic meaning it's been made up in the mind!!! ie, people that are blind, dumb, paralysed etc all of a sudden been miraculously cured...?...
Asthma is made in the mind as is depression etc...
Now, we have a tool to access those darkest recesses of the human subconscious...Y can't we change things?
To rule out the possibility that we have that control in our minds is like believing that the world is square (and there was a time when people were killed for saying it was round!) or like people believing the epilepsy was a demonic possession and you'd be burned at the stake for being a witch. they simply did'nt know any better and went with what others believed!
We could be the forefathers of a new medical certainty..and sure enough there will be those that oppose it like doctors first opposed psychologists... but we have merely begun to open a new door, maybe a door that holds many answers, y then would we turn our backs on that and simply ignore it because it didn't fit with our current beliefs?
Thats what I believe...
The mind has over thousands of years opened up our eyes to new and exciting things within itself, we would be ignorant to think there was nothing more for it to teach us
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Does hypnosis tape like breast enhancements work?
