| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Jorge |
Posted - 07/19/2009 : 12:44:41 PM
Hello Everyone,
I am curious as to what is the difference between the Esdaile State (AKA Coma State) and the "Ultra Depth" and "Sichort State"? If I understand their definitons, they are all the "Same dog with different collars" if you know what I mean.
Any comments welcomed.
Jorge |
| 10 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| hypknomark |
Posted - 08/19/2009 : 6:48:21 PM
When I first heard about the Sichort State from a Gerald Kein video, I was really excited about it and interested in learning more about it. Then I found some information that Gil had posted about it, perhaps here in this forum, and after that I had a better understanding and lost that excitement. A thank you goes to Gil for providing the facts! |
| Jorge |
Posted - 07/20/2009 : 9:03:04 PM
Hello Gil,
Thank you for your illuminating first hand account of the Sichort State. I suspected that there was a charlatan aspect to it. Someone brought up the subject to me a while back and I was curious to see if someone had any first hand experience with the subject. As for the use of "non-catatonic" to describe a state, I am aware of the impact that term has. It is not a term I use around a patient under any circumstances. I was simply trying to reach a meeting of the minds with Patrick. As someone trained by an old time Doc myself I not even use the world hypnosis around most patients, the power of words is as real to me as the effect suggestion has on the human subconscious. As I am sure you are well aware, there is still a certain "stigma" attached to many of the historical terms associated with hypnosis in many circles. Heck, even the term hypnosis itself can be a non-starter for many people.
Thanks again for your frank and genuine comments.
Gratefully, |
| mark-gil |
Posted - 07/20/2009 : 3:40:59 PM
Jorge, non-catatonic is a frightening word to most everyone and not part of the recognised hypnotherapy vocabulary.May I suggest that you lose the word permanently? Gil Boyne |
| patrickg |
Posted - 07/20/2009 : 1:09:29 PM
Nice to see you back, Gil! |
| mark-gil |
Posted - 07/20/2009 : 10:46:22 AM
I knew Walter Sicort very well and I was an invited guest to several
of his demonstrations of the Sicort Ultra Depth State. The total effect depended on a female subject (Sarah) who was a somnambulistic
(very deep trance)subject. After Sarah was hypnotized by Walter, (for the millionth time) he would turn to the audience and say,"Now, I am going to take her down to a deeper level and you will notice that etc."
He would repeat this for five or six supposed "depths" until she reached the "Ultra Depth" state. At that time(more than forty years ago) those in attendance did not understand that when he spoke to them, Sarah was also receiving direct suggestions from him. After a few years, Walter and Sarah, could draw only a few naive students who came to learn the "Sicort Ultra Depth" method. When Sarah died, the "act" was over. Curtain down!
Since then, a few entrepreneurs, have tried to market the discredited
Sicort Ultra Depth Method as a "sure-fire" miracle method.
Don't be dazzled by exciting promises that will not be realized!
Ask any "old timer" who has been around this profession for a very long time to learn the facts.
I realize that this will bring angry responses from a few who profit from this fiction, but I was there! Were you?
Gil Boyne
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Gil Boyne
www.gil-boyne.com
|
| mark-gil |
Posted - 07/20/2009 : 10:41:57 AM
In a new book, "The History of Hypnotism", The Works of James Braid"
by Donald Robertson,there are translations from several of Braid's works other than "Neurypnology". Braid coined the name "COMA STATE" and said that fewer than 10% can ever reach that state.--- Gil Boyne |
| Jorge |
Posted - 07/19/2009 : 1:14:54 PM
I understand. It is a matter of semantics. You are quite right, defining depths can be an excercise in futility. In the final analysis it is the results that count.
Thanks again for you input! |
| patrickg |
Posted - 07/19/2009 : 1:09:42 PM
They act quite different than somnambulistic states..... more dissociation... less emotional affect... but still responsive. Sort of like between somnambulism and esdaile.. but then we get into defining depths, which is a time wasting endeavor : )
|
| Jorge |
Posted - 07/19/2009 : 1:07:32 PM
Hey Patrick,
Thanks for the feedback. I guess it is a matter of semantics maybe? My use of hypnosis has been primarily to produce analgesia and anesthesia. The non-catatonic state is probably what you are referring to. In other words these two named states are just synonyms for the somnambulistic state, are they not? |
| patrickg |
Posted - 07/19/2009 : 1:01:52 PM
Ultra Depth and Ultra Height are a bit different than Esdaile as you are able to do a good amount of work in them. The client is responsive.
In Esdaile, they are not necessarily responsive and any work done is unlikely to 'stick'.
Sichort appears to be another name for Ultra Depth. |
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