| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| gavies |
Posted - 12/20/2008 : 5:07:50 PM
Is it true that one can't lie while hypnotized?Not only that but that he/she can tell truths unknown even to his/her uncounscience self?Also how does hypnosis create false memories? |
| 28 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| JakeRhodes |
Posted - 09/03/2009 : 10:42:47 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Frorchy
How can a person lie? I don't uderstand that? I think when a person is really hypnotized he is telling only the truth!
While in a state of hypnosis you are still fully aware of any questions being asked, and if it benefits you to lie (such as in a criminal case) it is still possible to do so. The person being hypnotized is in just as much control as the hypnotist. |
| patrickg |
Posted - 08/27/2009 : 6:58:15 PM
You would be wrong. People can lie to their hypnotist, as well as to themselves, when hypnotized. |
| Frorchy |
Posted - 08/27/2009 : 6:45:23 PM
How can a person lie? I don't uderstand that? I think when a person is really hypnotized he is telling only the truth! |
| hypknomark |
Posted - 08/19/2009 : 6:41:59 PM
As far as lying in hypnosis, people are able to lie better in hypnosis than in a waking state. My father was a hypnotist and growing up, once I reached a certain age, when I started going out and doing things I didn't want my parents to know about, I would not allow him to hypnotize me. I had the misconception that hypnosis was a truth serum and was afraid that he might ask me 'What were you doing last night?'. I picked this up from watching him hypnotize others, just like clients pick that up from TYV and stage shows! |
| hypknomark |
Posted - 08/19/2009 : 6:38:25 PM
False memories are easy to plant, and many times this happens when someone is not properly trained, and asks leading questions. It is important to think before you talk. I have caught myself starting to say the WRONG thing, basically leading the client.
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| bramly |
Posted - 06/12/2009 : 03:43:44 AM
A debate on hypnotism is a never ending debate. this is because hypnotism is not an exact science, as is anything to do with the mind. say someone wanted to study electricity, he could go to college and learn about the pioneers such as ampere-from whom the word 'amp' is derived, the unit of electrical current. these people discovered the mathmatics used for electrical calculations. if your tv needs a 5 amp fuse thats it, no ifs and buts, you will not find another expert who says it should be 7 amp. now to return to hypnotism, can a hypnotised person be made to do something they would not normally do? YES and NO, both answers are correct. |
| patrickg |
Posted - 06/11/2009 : 10:25:06 AM
LOL
You might add to your reading list some more recent authorities like Erickson, Elman, and Boyne.
I hope you research your Estabrooks reference enough to find he was not practicing "hypnosis". He was creating/forming/causing psychological trauma, a.k.a. abuse, with the goal of creating a Dissociative Identity Disorder akin to a child faced with severe abuse. He could then use that DID to have multiple personalities functioning in different manners.
"The subject might easily be left a mental wreck but war is a grim business." - G.H. Estabrooks, PH.D.
Keep reading, bramly. |
| bramly |
Posted - 06/11/2009 : 03:18:48 AM
quote:
Originally posted by HypnoDoc
I completely agree with Patrick on this. I don't think he was being patronizing at all. In fact, I am amazed that he stayed in the discussion this long. He continues to offer you sound information and you continue to ignore it.
without being insulting, Patrick is not the worlds leading authority on hypnotism and some of his of his remarks are in conflict with George Estabrooks who once was a leading authority. also Patrick has ignored the sound information in the book I previously mentioned. |
| bramly |
Posted - 06/10/2009 : 4:01:08 PM
I would like to explain why I supported Larghissimo without sounding pedantic. people do what they are commanded under hypnosis is a sweeping statement, it is true in general but I am sure most people would not do everything, such as kill someone for example. I did break a trance and found myself doing something I'd rather not do. the second part, it is not impossible, which also means it is not a certainty is also correct and there are also examples of this, as I found to my horror. |
| HypnoDoc |
Posted - 06/10/2009 : 11:43:08 AM
I completely agree with Patrick on this. I don't think he was being patronizing at all. In fact, I am amazed that he stayed in the discussion this long. He continues to offer you sound information and you continue to ignore it. |
| patrickg |
Posted - 06/10/2009 : 10:10:54 AM
The statement: "Yes, people do what they are commanded under hypnosis." Is laughably ridiculous, ignorant and naive. This type of belief is most often stated and argued by people with very limited, or no, real life experience.
The statement: "I think it is important to differetiate between hypnotherapy where a person is consciously aware of what they are saying, although in a trance and somnambulism where they are not."
Is also very miss-informed and alarmist. I hypnotize people every working day with the goal of reaching somnambulism, which I test for. Only when people find themselves going deeper than somnambulism do they mention not remembering parts of the session.
I probably do get patronizing on this board when encountering people trying to push their beliefs/ideas/concepts that are built upon a foundation of poor reading choices, anecdotal stories, and miss-interpreted subjective experiences.
Respectively,
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| bramly |
Posted - 06/10/2009 : 06:46:25 AM
quote:
Originally posted by patrickg
Larghissimo,
Could you please provide some proof of this ridiculous claim?
from Bramly, it is not ridiculous it is completely true and by the way I do not like your patronising attitude which I've noticed before on this forum. |
| bramly |
Posted - 06/10/2009 : 06:35:02 AM
quote:
Originally posted by patrickg
A person is able to lie while in hypnosis. They are aware of what they say.
Memories are fluid and alterable.
under the deeper levels of hypnosis a person is NOT consciously aware of what they are saying, because you are under the influence of the unconscious mind not the conscious mind and the unconscious mind cannot reason in the same way as the conscious mind. this is why a person can be made to perform entertaining acts for stage hypnosis with no memory afterwards. it is similar to a person who talks in their sleep with no memory of what they had said the following morning. as the unconscious mind accepts suggestions more literally a person is more likely to be truthfull depending how he is interrogated. I think it is important to differetiate between hypnotherapy where a person is consciously aware of what they are saying, although in a trance and somnambulism where they are not. I've experienced both and I advise anyone to do the same.however not everyone can achieve somnambulism. |
| bramly |
Posted - 06/10/2009 : 05:32:56 AM
quote:
Originally posted by patrickg
quote:
Originally posted by Larghissimo
Yes, people do what they are commanded under hypnosis. Only the depth of the trance determines whether or not it is executed. If people have to do things that are against their nature it is harder to make them do it, while it is not impossible.
Larghissimo,
Please, show me the data you hold that supports your statements????
from Bramly, read Open to suggestion by Robert Temple, which is the book I recomended on a previous post. |
| HypnoDoc |
Posted - 05/23/2009 : 9:27:53 PM
I once read a book that showed how you could tell a person's personality by the features of their face. For example: If there eyes we close together they were a criminal or not to be trusted. I am sure in it's time that was a real scientific breakthrough.
Spektrum der Hypnose - 1980
Times change - knowledge moves us forward.
Do a keyword search on "depth of trance" in this forum and see what the latest thinking is on depth.
Enjoy.
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| patrickg |
Posted - 05/20/2009 : 10:38:28 AM
Any suggestions given to the subconscious in ANY level of hypnosis are subject to the acceptance and/or rejection of currently held behaviors and beliefs - which are also held at that subconscious level. |
| Larghissimo |
Posted - 05/19/2009 : 3:38:28 PM
Think about the depth scale of Bynum:
quote:
Bynum Scale
Depth of Trance
Level Objective Symptoms
Insusceptible
0 No Objective Change
"Hypnoidal Trance"
1 No Objective Change 2 Relaxation 3 Fluttering of Eyelids 4 Closing of Eyes 5 Complete Physical Relaxation
"Light Trance"
6 Catalepsy of Eyelids 7 Limb Catalepsies 10 Rigid Catalepsies 11 Anesthesia (stocking/glove)
"Medium Trance"
12 Partial Amnesia 14 Post-Hypnotic Anesthesia 16 Personality Changes
18 Simple Post-Hypnotic Suggestions 20 Kinesthetic Delusions; Complete Amnesia
"Deep Trance"
21 Ability to open eyes without affecting Trance 23 Bizarre Post-Hypnotic Suggestions
"Moderately Deep Trance"
25 Complete Somnambulism 26 Positive Visual Hallucinations, (Post-Hypnotic)
27 Positive Auditory Hallucinations (Post-Hypnotic)
28 Systematized Post-Hypnotic Amnesias
"Profoundly Deep Trance"
29 Negative Auditory Hallucinations
30 Negative Visual Hallucinations,
Hyperaesthesias
In a hypnosis book from W. Meinhold, German scientist, booktitle Spektrum der Hypnose (also in German) I read ---> in chapter 5 subchapter Somnambulism <--- once that people in the somnambulistic state easier execute epihypnotic suggestions rash.
I must admit, it does not say that people who have to do things that are against their nature execute the commands with more resistance, but if you think logical then of course a hypnotist can amplify existing feelings/ behaviour easier.
Maybe I am wrong with the last statement, there are possibly techniques which make it easy to have someone do something that is completely against their nature. If so, please tell me ...
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| patrickg |
Posted - 05/18/2009 : 10:25:49 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Larghissimo
Yes, people do what they are commanded under hypnosis. Only the depth of the trance determines whether or not it is executed. If people have to do things that are against their nature it is harder to make them do it, while it is not impossible.
Larghissimo,
Please, show me the data you hold that supports your statements???? |
| patrickg |
Posted - 05/16/2009 : 5:48:38 PM
Larghissimo,
Could you please provide some proof of this ridiculous claim? |
| Larghissimo |
Posted - 05/16/2009 : 08:55:30 AM
Yes, people do what they are commanded under hypnosis. Only the depth of the trance determines wether or not it is executed. If people have to do things that are against their nature it is harder to make them do it, but it is not impossible.
|
| polar bear |
Posted - 12/30/2008 : 07:24:57 AM
hi
i have visited a very experienced hypnotherapist on numerous occasions, and once i payed for an appointment the week before it was due. after the said session the hypnotherapist did not ask for the money until the next session, when he asked me under hypnosis if i had payed. |
| patrickg |
Posted - 12/23/2008 : 09:50:17 AM
A LOT of different ways.
An example, When I was young, my younger brother did a thing that I got blamed for. My parents believed that I did it and I was punished for it. Years later I don't remember this event very well and over the years of being blamed for it, began to believe I DID do it.
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| gavies |
Posted - 12/21/2008 : 12:31:17 PM
How? |
| patrickg |
Posted - 12/20/2008 : 8:12:33 PM
Yes, a hypnotist, police person, parent, priest, CO, and the person themselves can suggest a memory without realizing it. |
| gavies |
Posted - 12/20/2008 : 8:05:00 PM
and what about the false memories?Can the hypnotist suggest one withought realising?How does it happen?If someone knows any study relating to this problem besides the Loftus? |
| patrickg |
Posted - 12/20/2008 : 6:53:57 PM
That would be a case by case, situation by situation thing. It would depend on the 'strength' of the suggestion and the 'strength' of the behavioral resistance to answer. |
| gavies |
Posted - 12/20/2008 : 6:36:10 PM
yeah, but isn't possible to trick the person into telling the truth?It's just that I read somewhere that a person will never take his/her clothes off in front of a bunch of people while hypnotized but if he /she is tricked into believing she dressing a suit when in fact that suit doesn't exist or to believe that the audience is'nt there he/she will do it.Wonder if there is a way to do the same thing when it comes to telling the truth. And can you find out truths about yourself like how you really feel about someone? |
| patrickg |
Posted - 12/20/2008 : 6:16:17 PM
A person is able to lie while in hypnosis. They are aware of what they say.
Memories are fluid and alterable. |
